I’ve heard from so many of you recently who have suffered a career setback in the midst of the global Covid-19 pandemic. So today, I wanted to feature someone whose career has also been hit hard by events. Commercial airline pilot turned heavy goods vehicle truck driver Aaron Leventhal shares his story of dealing with personal loss, managing career upheaval, and finding a way to pivot toward something else.

Aaron Leventhal- former FlyBe pilot turned Tesco truck driver

Aaron Leventhal- former FlyBe pilot turned Tesco truck driver

During the Mental Fuel segment, I also share some examples of setbacks I’ve been dealt in my own career along with my three strategies of dealing with setbacks.

If you’ve been dealt a blow in your own career for whatever reason, I hope you find this episode reassuring, inspiring, and most of all, a reminder that you’re not alone.

Key Career Insights

  1. When you’re managing loss, all you can do is look ahead to the future and find a way to bounce back.
  2. Having a plan B in place is a good idea even if you feel like you’ve “made it” or achieved your dream.
  3. Setbacks are a normal part of any career. Your ability to manage them is a muscle you can develop and strengthen over time.

Related Resources

Listener Challenge

During this episode’s Mental Fuel segment, I talked about the importance of finding a way to manage the setbacks you’ll inevitably face in your own career.

My challenge to you, if you’ve had a major career setback recently, either because of the pandemic or something completely unrelated to the pandemic, is to first, give yourself some time to process it. Allow yourself to just feel bad for a few days or even a few weeks is an important part of dealing with any sort of loss.

However, I also want you to decide when you’re going to then start taking action. To literally circle a date in your calendar when you’re going to at least try to move forward. Not to figure everything out, but to at least start taking some small steps to begin exploring where you can go from here. Restarting is often the hardest part, but I really do believe that ultimately, action will open up new opportunities for you.

About Aaron Leventhal

Aaron Leventhal- FlyBeAaron Leventhal‘s lifelong ambition was to become a pilot. Based in the UK, from the age of 6, all that he and his Twin brother would ever talk about was Airplanes and how they wanted to fly when they grew up.

At the age 13, Aaron joined Air Cadets, the real beginning to his flying bug. He then joined the British Army in 2004 as a craftsman in the Royal Electrical Mechanical Engineers and eventually became a civilian “Heavy Goods Vehicle” tanker driver to help fund his flight training expenses

In 2018, Aaron finished training and started working for Flybe as a First Officer,  only to be made redundant A year later in March 2020 when the pandemic hit.

He now works for Tesco, driving trucks to deliver household essentials to supermarkets during these challenging times. He hopes to return to the world of Aviation in the coming years.

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Episode Interview Transcript

Teaser (first ~15s): I’ve lost my job, and with COVID hitting now, there’s no recruiting so I can’t get a job. I have an empty feeling really. I just feel like I’ve worked so hard to get to where I was, and now, I’m back to square one again. I’ve lost my flying dream. I’ve lost something I’ve loved.

Joseph: Good morning, Aaron, and welcome to the show. Thanks so much for taking the time to speak with me in the middle of your very busy schedule.

Aaron: Good morning. Thank you for accepting me on your show.

Joseph: I want to talk to you about a few different things today, Aaron. I want to go all the way back to your childhood and talk to you about how you became interested in becoming a pilot. I know you spent some time in the British army. You’re also driving a tanker driver for a while. I do want to start by just getting a glimpse into what have you been up to the past few days and what have you been focused on in both your career and your life amid everything going on with the coronavirus.

Aaron: In the last few days, I’ve been working as a Tesco driver. It’s in a supermarket in the UK. It’s a heavy-goods vehicle. I’m doing this during night shifts at the moment, which is quite a strain on my sleep pattern and having a child. There’s maybe two or three stores delivering foods to keep the country up and running, really keeping their shelves stocked up for the British nation.

Joseph: Thank you for doing that. For those listening from outside the UK, Tesco is the UK’s largest grocery supermarket chain by market share. They’ve got nearly 4,000 stores in the UK. I order my groceries from Tesco, so I also want to extend a personal thank you to you for what you’re doing.

Can you tell me about your daughter? How old is she and what is she up to these days, now that the schools are closed?

Aaron: Yes, it’s been quite difficult to try and entertain her as time’s going on, and they’re getting bored. The schools have been really good. They’ve been handing us out homework to do via an online app, keeping up informed as to what’s happening next. Her name is Val. She’s coming up to seven years old in July. We’re just getting really frustrated with the situation. It’s quite difficult with work and looking after your child. We haven’t gotten anyone to care for her, and so obviously it’s just myself and my partner. It’s been difficult.

Joseph: We’re recording this in early May as context. The UK has now been in lockdown for several weeks. You mentioned that you’re work in the night shift. I actually have a very good friend of mine who used to work the night shift at an airport in Philadelphia. I know it can be really mind-dizzying at times. What’s it been like for you to be working the night shift?

Aaron: It’s just been a bit of a shift from what I was doing before. You start roughly at about 6:30 in the evening, and it’s usually finished in 6:30 the following morning, which is a full-on night shift working straight through. It’s difficult, but I know that I’m doing it for the good, and that’s what’s keeping me going throughout the night.

Joseph: We don’t always do this on the show, but I actually want to go all the way back in time to your childhood, when you were I believe six, and you first became interested in flying. I’d love it if you could just kick us off by telling me a little bit about your childhood and how you became interested in flying, and then we’ll move forward from there.

Aaron: Like you said, Joseph, it started at the age of six. Me and my twin brother, we’d go flying motor airplanes and build motor airplanes. Our stepdad would take us to the airshows, and that was kind of where it really kicked off for me.

It wasn’t until I got to the age of 13 and 9 months where I could finally go and join my local Air Training Corps, which is those Air Cadets. I was there in fact five years. That was really where the thought of flying really kicked in for me.

Joseph: At that moment when you were 13 and you were part of Air Cadets, were you thinking at that moment, ‘Hey, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to do when I grow up. I want to be a pilot.’ Is that what was running through your head?

Aaron: Yeah, I already knew that before I came to Air Cadets, but being in Air Cadets confirmed that exactly what I want to do. As soon as our first flight, at 13 and 9 months, that was it. That’s where you get the flying bug. It never left. By the age of 15, I did my very first solo flight.

Joseph: At that point, for somebody who would be interested in becoming a pilot, what would then be the typical path and what did you end up doing?

Aaron: There are different routes you can take, but if you’re young enough like 15, 13, and 19 years old, you can go and join your local Air Cadets. I recommend that. It’s free flying, and it really tests if you really want that career before you go spending your big bucks.

For me, after Air Cadets, I started to work through what was called the modular route. There’s an integrated route or a modular route. The integrated route is where you can do it in a very short period, have to have a big lump sum of money, maybe £120,000 upfront. The way I did it was what worked best for me, and that was to work and pay for it – pay as you go really, just bits and pieces here and there.

You go and get your PPL first, which is your private pilot’s license. You must amass 45 hours. Once you succeed at that, you can then make a decision whether you want to go on to the airlines or if you want to keep it as a general aviation pilot where you can just go out and take your family and fly around in little scenic airplanes.

If you’d like to go and be an airline pilot, this is where you got to start building your hours up, and it gets expensive, so you’re looking at like 100 hours pilot in command, total hours of 150. Then you got to go and do some exams, which is about 14 exams for your airline transport license. It took me roughly about 18 months because I was working full-time.

Joseph: What were you doing at the time?

Aaron: I was working as a tanker driver, so I was doing roughly 12 to 14-hour days with an hour commute on each end of that as well. It was very good work-time management to get through something like that. You don’t get much time to study at home, but I used to take my study manuals with me and stick post-it notes all over my Lorry just so I can revise all the time.

Once you finish those exams, that’s when the fun starts really. You start flying. You can go and get your commercial pilot’s license. That’s another course, which is about 45 hours, and then it gets even more expensive, where you’re going on to twin-engine aircrafts, and we’re flying multiengine air things in the UK. I was paying £600 an hour. You go on to see and go into simulators, and then you’re ready to go and apply for your first job. It still doesn’t end there.

Joseph: Vey in-depth, very elongated, and quite an investment of time, money, and effort.

Aaron: Exactly. I mean that’s the way I chose to do it because it works better for me because I was working. But if you’ve got the money upfront, it can take two, three years.

Joseph: I’d imagine a lot of people don’t have that kind of cash upfront as a teenager, and I know that you also spent some time in the British army. What were you doing in the army, and how were you balancing that with being a heavy-goods vehicle tanker driver?

Aaron: Two thousand and four to two thousand and six, I was employed as a Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineer. I was actually a vehicle mechanic at that time. It was at the British Army where I gained my qualification to drive HGVs dangerous goods. I didn’t need to use that when I left the British army, I was in a civil job to earn the money to fly.

In the British Army, it was an amazing experience. I’d recommend it to anybody to go in into the British Army or in any army. It really builds on the foundations of your career. You’ve got your core values. You’ve got to demonstrate courage, discipline, integrity, and selfless commitment. You gain responsibility, independence, and build up on your teamwork. It sets you up for life, and I’m really glad I went in there and did that.

Joseph: Yeah, it sounds like an amazing experience. At the same time, I know when we spoke before, you mentioned that, at some point, you realized that it was leading you away from what you truly wanted to do, which was to become a pilot. I’m curious to hear how you ended up coming to that realization.

Aaron: I went into the British Army hoping that I’ll transfer over to go in the Air Corps. It was a way of trying to get into flying, but it became apparent that that wasn’t going to happen for a long period, so I made the decision to leave the British Army and do it my own way. I wanted to fly, and that’s my vision. It always has been, so I went to get back on my path and all of it, all of the dream.

Joseph: You’re an HGV tanker driver, and you’re doing that to build up your savings to pay toward flight training. Can you just give a glimpse in a typical day in your life as a heavy-goods vehicle driver when you’re driving these huge petrol tankers down the road? What’s that like and what does a day look like for you?

Aaron: I live about an hour and 10 minutes away from the depot where I drive the artic lorry. It’s a good hour and 10 to get there, and then my day starts. I was on a night shift, so I usually arrive at about past 6:00 in the evening. We go in, we check in, we sit around and wait until the job comes up, which could be a good hour before you go out. Once we go out, we go and find our unit, which is the front part of the artic, and then you go and connect it up to your trailer, which is already loaded for you. It’s a very straightforward job.

You go over the weighbridge, and off you go to your first supermarket. When you get there, the tricky bit comes into play when you got to start reversing these articulate lines. Once a day, you deliver the food, you offload it yourself and the assistants of the front door staff there, and I went and sign paperwork, return back to depot, and off you go again. This is why I choose a job like this, just so I could keep the capacity to train as a pilot.

Joseph: I guess something I’ve always wondered—even as a child, I remember being in the car and seeing these huge trucks go by, and there’s normally typically a male driving in the front by himself—does it ever get lonely driving those trucks? How do you keep yourself occupied on the road?

Aaron: Initially, no, but as the years went on, it does. Especially with petrol tankers because there are restrictions. You’re not allowed to have any sort of electronic devices or a personal electronic devices, PEDs in the cab with you, because with the fumes of the fuel, especially petrol, it can be very disastrous. The rules are no phones allowed, so we can’t even call anybody.

The trips that we were doing with petrol tankers is the aviation side I was doing, so it’s a different jet, E1, which is airplane fuel to the airport. The runs are quite short, so you never really got lonely. It was a good time for me to bring my revision notes with me. That was the only way I could do it, because when I get home, I’m just going to be absolutely exhausted, or my daughter would be around me. It’s actually quite a nice escape to go work and start revising.

Joseph: I know when we spoke before, you mentioned 2009 being a major turning point for you. I feel like we have to touch on this because it’s such a big part of your story. What was happening in your life at the time?

Aaron: This is about a year now into where I finally started my modular training towards my airline pilot license. On the 19th of April, 2009, unfortunately, I had a big setback. My twin brother passed way suddenly. This was absolutely devastating to me and my family.

Joseph: How old was he at the time?

Aaron: We were 25 years old. It was lifechanging. I just see the world differently after that really. You realize that life is short, and I was more willing to take the risks, especially like getting big loans and credit cards, which I was a bit apprehensive about. Once that happened, I just thought, ‘You know what? You got to be more adventurous in this life because we’re not around for long.’ That’s really opened up my eyes.

Joseph: If you’re willing to share, what happened with your brother?

Aaron: It happened leading up to his death. It was about three years. Unfortunately, he fell into depression, and it took maybe three or four attempts of him, attempting suicide. Every time he’d do it, he would ring me – nobody else. He’d just ring me to ask. I don’t know what exactly what he’s saying, but it was like he wants your approval or something or a cry for help. Every time before he attempted suicide, he would call me first. Maybe it’s for me to go – I always stopped it, and then the last time, he didn’t. He just literally got on with it, and he hanged himself.

Joseph: I’m so sorry to hear that. I’m just trying to imagine this is your twin brother, and you guys grew up together and had dreams of becoming a pilot. What ran through your head when you heard that news in that very moment that your brother had committed suicide? Is there any way to put that into words?

Aaron: I remember when they broke it to me. My world just fell apart at that time. Numbness. The world stops. I just broke down. There are not many words to describe what happened at that particular moment other than just shock, disbelief. Even though the years leading up to it, I kind of knew that something was wrong, and I thought I had my mind set to sort of be ready for that moment, but no. I wasn’t, not at all.

Joseph: What do you think has been the toughest part of losing him?

Aaron: Not being able to share my experience, our experience of flying. We talked about it all those years before he died. I never even managed to get him in the aircraft – not once, not even fly beside me. When I fly sometimes, I just look over to the left seat, and I was just wishing he would be sitting there. I never had the opportunity to take him flying.

Joseph: I sometimes find that certain events become dividers in our lives where you are a certain person before an event, and you’re a very different person after that event. I’m imagining that this must have been one of those events for you. What has changed for you pre and post losing your brother?

Aaron: Before losing my brother, I wasn’t willing to take as many risks as I have. Maybe I wouldn’t have gone this far through my training. I’ll never know, but after he passed away, I took the risks. I got the loans. I got the debts. I had to go with it. That’s something I probably wouldn’t have done maybe before.

Just being resilient, grabbing my personal control, rebuilding myself after the event, and then getting back into my flight training as soon as possible. I mean the show must go on. Stay focused. That’s how I got through it. I’m a very driven person. That’s how I’ve got this far.

Joseph: Thanks so much for sharing that, Aaron. I’d like to shift gears a little bit here and now talk about your time as a pilot. I know eventually, I think it was around 2018, 2019, when you actually were moving toward this dream and achieving this dream of becoming a pilot. Can you share what that chapter of your career was shaping up to look like?

Aaron: I was accepted to an airline called Flybe in the UK. It was a regional airline, regional connectivity. I was there for 13 months. Unfortunately, the airline collapsed on the 5th of March this year, which is 2020.

Joseph: I do want to talk about that and what’s happened when you were made redundant. Before we do that though, I would like to talk a little bit about your time as a pilot, because I know that this is a dream that you had, and you achieved it. What was it like the first time you climbed into the cockpit and took your first flight where you’re carrying passengers from one place to another?

Aaron: The first experience is overwhelming. I just couldn’t believe what I was doing. It was actually happening. I’m flying a big jet. It also thrusts, going on the runway. You rotate and off you go into the sunset. You do flight take off and landings, and then that’s it. You’re ready to go with your passengers in. You go into line training. You’re still training with passengers on as a first officer. The captain’s the experienced guide. To have my first passengers, absolutely amazing experience. To start talking to your passengers as well and inform them of how we’re getting on the premises of the flight is so unreal. Some of the routes we were flying but especially down to Milan, where there were the mountains or snow, it’s just absolutely scenic, really, really beautiful experience.

Joseph: I’ve flown with Flybe before because, as I mentioned to you before, I used to live in South Hampton. In the South Hampton Airport, Flybe used to be one of the carriers there. As a passenger, I guess the only time I really see a pilot is either in the terminal when you guys are walking by us in the gate area or maybe I’ll see the back of your head as we’re boarding or if you go to the bathroom or something. If I’m lucky, I’ll get a chance to say thank you to you as we’re deplaning.

Can you just give a quick behind-the-scenes glimpse into what’s really going on up there in the cockpit while all the passengers are just sitting back in the cabin, chilling out and relaxing?

Aaron: Flybe has quite short sectors we’re doing. We’re doing maybe four sectors, and they’re quite busy days. After your long-haul flights where you might have up to 16-hours flights, the workload can be a lot less than what we were doing. It was very a diverse and dynamic environment that we live in, especially in the cockpit.

I’ll give you an example. Once we get airborne, we’re going for our chats, all the way up to the cruise. When we’re in the cruise, the captain and the first officer, we both got our different roles. One of us will be pilot flying, and one of us will be pilot monitoring. There’s always one pilot who’s flying the aircraft, and there’s always one pilot who’s monitoring the back pilot and systems.

We take it in turns each sector, so one sector would be, say, from South Hampton to Milan. The second sector would be from Milan to South Hampton. So I may fly bound. The captain may fly back. As a first officer, if I was pilot monitoring, I used to go through system checks. We’re doing timing checks, fuel checks. There’s plenty of stuff that go on with it, especially in the short period of time. It’s a very fast-paced environment.

If it was long-haul, it’s more relaxed, but I really enjoy that type of flying because it just kept you in the toes. You never get complacent. You start your cruise, and then you start your descent pretty much within five minutes. You’re in the cruise for five minutes. There’s lots of pressure, lots of challenges, but exciting.

We’re communicating with the cabin, talking to our passengers, also talking with our cabin crew, talking with air traffic control. That’s a very busy environment to be listening out on. You could be in a sensor or the other aircraft in the area. It’s very busy, multi-tasked, and multi-talented job.

Joseph: Is there any misconceptions that you feel people have about being a pilot for an airline, either ones you’ve heard from other people or even once that you had yourself?

Aaron: The biggest one is everybody thinks that the airplane basically flies itself. People say, ‘Oh, the autopilot takes off and land this aircraft.’ There are aircrafts that do do that, but the aircraft I was flying, we would have it in autopilot when we’re passed 1,000 feet above the ground, so it’s much smoother and more pleasant for the passengers when the autopilot takes over. The takeoff and landing is fully onto us, the captain and myself.

Joseph: That’s really interesting. I remember way back in the day. I don’t know if they still let you do this, but you could tune into a channel on your headset as a passenger where you could listen to the air traffic control communicating with the pilot. I was always impressed by how much chatter there was. There really wasn’t a whole lot of silence, and there’s a lot going on behind the scenes up there.

Aaron: Yes, especially around UK. The transatlantic flights, they’re the quiet ones because once you go over the ocean towards America, it’s a lot more quiet. You’re using different frequencies, HF frequencies. Around the UK, we’re on the VHF frequency. You listen to London controls, Scottish control, and you can hear everything going on. It’s a really, really busy environment.

You got to stay engaged and listen to what other pilots are saying because it gives you good situation awareness. You’re also doing your own work and your own space in your cockpit in the flight deck. Like I said, multi-talented. You just end up getting used to listening in to all this chatter.

Joseph: Got it. Aaron, you’re a pilot now for Flybe. You’re flying airplanes. You’re living your dream. Then you mentioned earlier that a couple of months ago, you’re made redundant from Flybe in early March 2020. What happened and what was it like to hear that news for you?

Aaron: Well, as you can see from our discussion, it took a long time, 10 years, to get here. My whole life has been working towards this dream of flying, and on the 5th of March, when the airline collapsed, it felt like the rug was pulled out from beneath me. Initially, it was a shock. I went through all the emotions – worry and anxiety, ‘What am I going to do for money? How am I going to get back into flying?’ I was devastated. I stayed loyal to Flybe right until the end.

There were signs of those problems with the airline. Some people would start a joke and go on over on to other airlines, but I thought, ‘No. I’m going to stay loyal to Flybe right until the end.’ Unfortunately, the risk didn’t pay off. I lost the job. I was made redundant, and that was it. A couple of backs, and I moved from Birmingham back to Cardiff.

It’s kind of a triple whammy for me. I lost my job, and with COVID hitting now, there’s no recruiting, so I can’t get a job. On the other hand, I’ve also lost my license as well now. It’s expired, so I’m going to have to pay another £6,000 to go and renew my license when the simulators reopen and the training centers reopen. It’s been a triple whammy, and it’s just been one bad news after another.

Like I said earlier on, I’m kind of a resilient person. I’m flexible to change. I’ve gotten back in the lorry. I’m getting back on with it, back on the road, keep the money coming in, helping the nation. I’m looking towards the future now of getting back into the flying career.

Joseph: I’ve spoken to so many people, Aaron, just in the past few weeks, who have had what you described like some version of a triple whammy where everything is landing at once, and no good news is coming in. What was it like for you to move from being a pilot in an airplane cockpit to returning back to becoming a driver?

I’m interested in hearing your views on that because I guess there’s a couple of aspects to this. There’s returning back to what you were doing before achieving the dream, and then there’s also finding a way to make ends meet at this really challenging time. I guess I’m just curious to hear more about what that process has been like for you.

Aaron: I’ve kept a plan B as a back up plan, going back to the lorry just in case. I was always told, it’s always good to have an HGV license because there’s always work out there for you, and so I kept it valid. I kept my licenses valid just in case anything bad did happen. Unfortunately, it happened, but fortunately, I had my licenses to fall back on, and certainly I get help to get through this COVID-19.

To go back to driving, obviously the pace of life has slowed right down. I was flying 100 miles an hour in a jet down to 50 miles on a roadway. I have an empty feeling really. I just feel like I’ve worked so hard to get to where I was, and now, I’m back to square one again. I’ve lost my flying dream temporarily. I’ve lost something I’ve loved.

What’s happened here is, after the incident with my twin brother, this has prepared me mentally to go through this situation.

Joseph: It sounds like you’ve, in some ways, built up this muscle of resilience, having dealt with some major set backs and just emotional loss in the past, which doesn’t make it any easier to go through, but I guess it just helps in some ways to manage the situation and maybe soften the impact of it.

Aaron: I have to get back out there as soon as possible. We didn’t get furlough from the company, so I have to get out and start earning some money to get by. You can’t live off air.

I’m feeling positive. I’ve got my licenses. I’ve got my hours. I’ve gone through all the training. I’m feeling positive that there is going to be light at the end of the tunnel. I just need to build a connection. Maybe through networking, this may lead to some possible opportunities like my LinkedIn post that I’ve put up that you’ve seen.

Joseph: Yeah.

Aaron: I was very fortunate with that. I thought to post up explaining I lost my job, and I’ve gone back to being a lovely driver. It went out to 2.8 million people, which is absolutely fantastic.

Joseph: When you posted that—because that’s how I discovered you, Aaron—what did you think was going to happen when you posted that? For those people who haven’t seen it, it’s like a side-by-side of you in the cockpit and then you standing in front of a Tesco truck on LinkedIn and just explaining what had happened. What did you think was going to happen when you posted that?

Aaron: I just put the post up there for my colleagues because we all joined a group, Flybe Ex-Employees. I thought I’d put that post up as a bit of inspiration to them, to all my colleagues, to give them a bit of uplifting message, just to maybe help them a little bit. When I woke up the following morning, and it was over a million views, I was in disbelief really. I just couldn’t believe what I was looking at. I underestimated the powers of social media.

That post, I come home from work after my third night shift of starting this new job. I was lying in bed. I literally just typed up, put a picture on, and went to sleep. I never expected it to go like it did. I didn’t expect the media to be chasing me for it. It’s just absolutely overwhelming.

Joseph: That’s a good segue, Aaron, in the last thing I was hoping to talk with you about before we wrap up. That’s just a few of the things that you’ve learned along the way of your very interesting career journey, both the ups and the down. I’m curious what you’ve learned about yourself, having shifted into the world of aviation and achieving your dream of becoming a pilot, only to then have that quickly taken away from you and you having to pivot out of that world. What have you learned about yourself through this process?

Aaron: The way I’ve chosen to do my flight training was probably the most difficult way because I had to work a full-time job. Going through that experience, I’m really, really proud that I did that that way as well. I could see that I had that drive, prove I had that drive.

Being able to handle workload management as well very well, to work all these hours and then to study around it, it’s just not an easy game.

Joseph: How do you think this is all going to turn out for you, Aaron? I know it’s a bit of a guessing game. Nobody knows what’s going to happen to the airline industry, but any guesses of how you think it’s going to turn out and also how you hope this will turn out for you.

Aaron: The airline industry is very tough, and it does come back. We haven’t been through something as big as this, but it is going to come back. It’s just a matter of time, patience, and keeping our vision focused, and I’ll be back as a first officer somewhere.

Joseph: Thank you so much, Aaron, for taking the time today to tell us more about your life as a pilot and sharing some glimpses into your very personal story and also your recent shift back to being an HGV driver for Tesco. As I mentioned before, as someone who orders our groceries from Tesco, I just want to personally thank you for everything you’re doing for the country right now. I also just want to wish you the very best of luck with one day hopefully returning to becoming a pilot again.

Aaron: Thank you very much, Joseph, for giving me this opportunity to come and talk to you and hopefully inspire some people.

About Joseph Liu

Joseph Liu is dedicated to helping people relaunch their careers and do more meaningful work. As a public speaker, career consultant, and host of the Career Relaunch® podcast, he shares insights from his decade of experience relaunching global consumer brands to help professionals to more effectively market their personal brands.

About Joseph Liu

Joseph Liu helps aspiring professionals relaunch their careers to do work that matters. As a keynote speaker, career & personal branding consultant, and host of the Career Relaunch podcast, his passion is helping people gain the clarity, confidence, and courage to pursue truly meaningful careers. Having gone through three major career changes himself, he now shares insights from building & relaunching global consumer brands to empower professionals and business owners to build & relaunch their personal brands.